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Who are these Kamboj people 3


Old 07-31-2004, 04:16 PM

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Default The ASSAKENOI people of the cl

The ASSAKENOI people of the classical writings are ASSAKAN of Pali Texts and ASHVAKAN/ASHVAKAYAN of the Sanskrit literature. ASSAKA = Horse people, cavaliers from ASSA.ka [also see KAMBOJO-ASSA.NAM.AYATANAM = Kamboja homeland of horses.......as refered in Manarathpurni, Sumangavilasini, Kunalajataka and Visudhimagga of Buddhist literature. In Mahabharata, the same people are refered to as ...... 'Kambojah.......ite Ashva.yuddha.kushalah= i.e. the Kambojas, an expert cavalary....MBH 12/101/5].

These people lived in Swat valley, the ancient Land of Kambojas. Their capital city was Massaga or Mashkavati. Unlike the Gandharas of Taxila who submitted without giving a fight, these brave Ashvakayan Kambojas [=Kamboj cavalary, =Horseriders, =horsepeople] defied Alexander in the very face, and along with their wives and daughters, these people
had fought a heroic battle against Alexander.....
...finally being overpowered by a well-trained and
world-class military forces of Alexander. The Ashvakas or Assakenoi Kambojs laid down heir lives,
Along with their wives and daughters, thus achieving a glorious martyrdom rather than submitting to the
foreign invaders.

This saga remains a glorious chapter of the Kamboj history. The tantalizing story of Ashvaka/Alexandra fight is told by Diodorus [Diodorus in McCrindle p 270....also Plutarch, Arrian, Curtius]

It is note worthy that Alexander was forced to enter into a peace treaty with the Ashvakas. And the proposal had come from Alexander himself [see Plutarch in McCrindle, p 306]. But later, Alexander flagrantly violated the treaty terms and attacked his opponents from behind and massacred the Abhisarean
Kambojas mercelessly.

PLUTARCH swears at this cowardly action of Alexandra saying: "This unheroic action will always remain an infamous blot on the military achievements of Alexander"

SANDERSON BECK: "The Assakenoi resisted Alexander with tens of thousands of cavalry and infantry in a fortress at Massaga. After the king was killed, the army was led by his MOTHER, Queen CLEOPHIS [Kripi in Sanskrit] and included the LOCAL WOMEN. After several days of heroic fighting, Alexander offered these brave people their lives if the mercenaries would agree to join his army; the city capitulated. But not wanting to fight other Indians, the seven thousand mercenaries tried to run away from the camp and were slaughtered by Alexander's soldiers".

http://www.san.beck.org/EC10-Social.html
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#32
Old 08-08-2004, 05:13 PM
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Default ZUBAIRI VIEW OF THE KAMBOH/KAM

ZUBAIRI VIEW OF THE KAMBOH/KAMBOJ ORIGIN:

The Zubair Kambohs were probably the earliest section of the Kambojs to have converted to Islam. They were very powerful during Lodhi, Pathan and Moghul rule in India and occupied very high military and civil positions as ruling elites.

http://kambojsociety. com/moslem.asp

But like most other Moslems, they trace their origin from Mecca/Medina and profess to be related to the Prophet. It has to be noted that it has almost become a fashion among the Moslems of North-west to claim their ancestral links with Prophet Mohammad.[Scot Robertson, Caroe Olaf]. So much so, even the Kam/Kamoz Kaffirs [now Nuristanis] who were islamised only as late as 1895, claim themselves as originally from Arab, some say from Koreish tribe. [The Kafirs of Hindukush, 1896, p 158, Goerge Scott Robertson].


READ THE FOLLOWING TEXT FROM ZUBAIRE SITE:

Hazrat Zubair (R.A.A.)

"This write up is based up on Tabaqat-e-Ibn-e-Saad, "Al-Mashahir" by Hakim Faiz Ahmad of Marehra, 'Khandan-i-Zubairi Kanbhavi' by Moulvi Hasan Ahmad Zubairi, Kitab-i-Zeest by Al-Haj Mohammad Zubair, and the Suharwardy Aulias. of Lahore."

"Zubairis are descendents of Hazrat Zubair (R.A.A.) bin Awam, who was closely related to our Prophet Mohammad (S.A.A.W.) through several family connections. His mother Hazrat Safia was the real sister of the father of the Prophet. The family tree of the Prophet and Hazrat Zubair meet on Kallab at the fifth generation of the Quraish of Macca."

.................................................. .................................................. ..........................

"Hazrat Zubair (R.A.A.) had twelve sons and nine daughters from several wives and thus he was the head of a large family."

"His three famous sons in Islamic History are Abdullah, Musab and Urwah. During Amir Mawiyah's rule, Hazrat Abdullah (R.A.A.) did not acknowledge Yazid as successor to the Caliphate. After the battle of Karbla, Hazrat Abdullah bin Zubair (R.A.A.) was proclaimed as Caliph of Islam at Mecca and ruled a part of the Islamic world for about nine years (from 64. A.H. to 73 A.H.) Hazrat Musab was his governor over Northern Areas, but in the mean time the Ummayads, under Abdul Malik (who controlled Syria) began to assert themselves and became so strong that they attacked Mecca in 73. A.H. Though Hazrat Abdullah (R.A.A.) was killed in the vicinity of Ka'aba, but his bravery was acknowledged by every historian of that period. Before that event, Hazrat Musab, who was governor of Kufa was attacked by Abdul Malik and due to the betrayal of the Iraqis, he was also killed near Busra."

"Hazrat Abdullah and Hazrat Musab were known for their bravery and fighting spirits. They were not as intriguers as the Ummayads were, and therefore they were defeated because of the betrayal of the Iraqis and some other tribes, who sold their loyalties to the Ummayads. Thus the first and the last caliphate of the Zubairis ended with the martyrdom of Hazrat Abdullah Ibne-Zubair (R.A.A.) in 73 A.H."

KAMBOHS ORIGINATED FROM URWAH, THE THIRD SON OF HAZRAT ZUBAIR:

"Third famous son of Hazrat Zubair (R.A.A.) was Urwah, who was a man of letters and a historian. He was the first Muslim historian who wrote a book on the wars (Maghazi) of the Prophet of Islam. In Al-Nadim (an Encyclopedia of the Arabic works written upto the Abbasid period) several books of Hazrat Urwah are also mentioned in it. The Zubairis started migration from Mecca and Madina towards Sindh, some 40 or 50 years after its conquest by Mohammad bin Qasim. They settled in a place known as "KANBAH", which was near modern Dadu. Shamsuddin A1 Bashari, a renowned historian and a geographer traveled in Sindh extensively in the 4th century of Hijra and in his Book he wrote that: "I travelled the whole area, which is known as "KANBAYAH" which is the abode of Al-Zubair. KANBAYAH became "KANBAH" and later it changed into "KANBOH"*due to linguistic variations in the Persian period. Though this linguistic change became common, the people did not change and they are still having their special trends." (page 475 of the Lyden Edition, Germany), as referred by Al-Haj Mohammad Zubair in his book "Kitab-i- Zeest (Book of life) Page 123".

*KANBOH=KAMBOH

"Latest observation about the Zubairis is by Mr. Khalid Chaudhry who visited a number of countries in search of belongingness and whose article appeard in Daily "Dawn" (Magazine Section dated February 21, 1999) and he writes that; "Our people Pakistanis, came from every where, beginning with the Aryans, to the Greeks, the Mongols, Central Asians, and the Arabs. We now have such family names as Zuberis speaking Urdu, but usually having semitic noses, lighter complexions and Arab origins likewise for the Arabs of Sindh, but who speak Sindhi" Our Arabic origin, special features and trends, and distinguished mental faculties made us a prominent family in the Indo- Pakistan sub-continent". **

Second migration of the Zubairis took place by the end of the 4th centry A.H. From Sindh to Multan, when Sindh was overrun by the Carmathians, a Shia Sect., opposed to the Abbasid Caliphate, at that time.

The Zubairis

http://www.islamicaweb. com/archive/read/t-7616.html
http://www.islamicaweb. com/forums/showthread.php?t=7616

** IMPORTANT REMINDER: Accept the reality Mr Khalid Chaudhury Zubairi Kamboh Sahib. Clean up your mirror and then look into it very carefully. You will notice that you have Aryan and not semitic nose, an Aryan and not semitic complexions/features. And therefore, you indeed have Aryan and not a semitic blood and lineage. This is a fact of history you need to accept...sooner the better. You are indeed from ancient Indo-Iranian Aryan Kamboj blood...Dont follow the mirage. You need to be aware of your actual Kamboj lineage...a very glorious, prideful and ancient lineage to all intents and puposes...

This is fact of history.

BTW: FOLLOWING IS ANOTHER ZUBERI KAMBOH SITE.
http://www.zubairy.8m. com/photo_album.html
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#33
Old 08-14-2004, 08:06 PM
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Default ALEXANDRA'S COMPAIGN 326 B

ALEXANDRA'S COMPAIGN 326 BC

The Punjab
"By the end of 327, Alexander the Great had secured the northern frontier of his kingdom and was ready for a new campaign: to India, a country that the Greeks already knew from the Histories by Herodotus of Halicarnassus, but his reports were incredible (click here for the famous story about the gold digging ants). Invading India was like invading a country of fairy tales".

"It was an unnecessary war, and its only cause must have been Alexander's curiosity and desire for war. If he had any doubts, these were suppressed when he remembered that his mythological ancestors Dionysus and Heracles had visited India, something that needed to be emulated. Another argument to move to the east must have been the presence of two Indian princes at Alexander's court, SISICOTTUS** and OMPHISs (or Sasigupta and Ambhi, to use their Indian names). The first was at war with the tribe of the Assacenes [ASHVAKA-KAMBOJAS], the second was afraid of king Porus (Puru) and tried to enlist foreign help against his enemy."

"Alexander's campaign through the foothills of the Himalayas was in fact little short of genocide. When Alexander was lightly wounded during the siege of a hill fortress and it was taken, all defenders were massacred. In another valley, the terrorized population fled after destroying their own villages. A sad story is that about Alexander's men who, during a cold night, burned the small wooden boxes they found in the neighborhood of a town they were besieging. Too late they discovered that these boxes were coffins***; the population was shocked about this sacrilege. When the capital of the Assacenes, a town called Massaga (near modern Chakdarra), surrendered, Alexander demanded that the mercenaries that had defended the town joined his own army, but after they had placed themselves at Alexander's mercy, he ordered their extermination."

http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander13.html

**SISICOTTOS: CHIEFTAIN SISICOTTUS HIMSELF APPEARS TO HAVE BELONGED TO ASHVAKA KAMBOJA CLAN. HE HAD ENEMITY WITH THE ASHVAKAS OF KUNAR/SWAT VALLEY. ORIGINAALY SISIGUPTA BELONGED TO CIS-HINDUKUSH REGION, BUT DUE TO POLITICAL REASONS, HE HAD LEFT HIS LAND AND GONE TO BACTERIA. THIS SISICOTTOS HAD HELPED ALEXANDRA IN HIS MILITARY COMPAIGN AGAINST THE CHIEFTAIN OF SOGADHA [TRANS-OXIAN COUNTRY] AND LATER AGAINST CIS-HINDUKUSH TRIBES/CLANS INCLUDING ASPASIOSA/ASSAKENOIS ALSO. AFTER THE ASVHAYANAS/ASHVAKAYANAS[Aspasiuos/assakenois of classical writings] HAD BEEN REDUCED BY ALEXANDRA IN 326, SISICOTTOS WAS MADE GOVERNOR OF THEIR COUNTRY. DR J. C. VIDYALANKAR CALLS THIS SASIGUPTA AS THE KAMBOJA CHIEFTAIN.[ITIHAAS PARVESH, pp 115-118, Dr VIDYALANKAR]

***WOODEN COFFINS: This reference is extremely important and probably refers to the Kamboja ancestors of modern Kam/Katir clans [Kamtoz Kamoz clans] of Kaffirstan. Till as late as 1895 AD, it was a custom among the Kam/Katir Kaffirs of Kaffirsthan to dispose off their deads by placing them into wooden box coffins and then leaving the wooden coffins exposed in the open marked-out space, outside the village [Ref: The Kaffirs of Hindukush, 1895, Robertson Scot]. It appears that the Kams/Katirs of Kaffirsthan had continued this ancient custom till the end of 19th c AD until they were converted to Islam.

Apparently, this practice of disposing their deads was a Non-vedic....probably was of Zoroastrian influence....... either throwing them in open spaces to be devored by birds/animals or confining them into coffins and then leaving them into open spaces. This information again very well matches the Indo-Iranian characeristics of the ancient Kambojas.
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#34
Old 08-15-2004, 04:57 PM
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Default The Mountain Meru "....

The Mountain Meru

".....Our sources on Alexander are focussed on warfare, but they give some information about the Gandarians too. Their towns were surrounded by brickwork fortifications, they fought with spears and arrows -no swords and shields are mentioned- and their leaders wore cuirasses. They had beautiful buffaloes (Alexander wanted to send them to Macedonia), and their towns were ruled by an aristocracy. Once, a queen is mentioned. And the Gandarians buried their dead in wooden coffins, which were placed on the hills around their towns. This custom still exists among the Kafirs***, a local tribe near Chitral."

http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/gandara/gandara.html

The custom of disposal of the deads among the Kafirs was first described by Sir Gerorge Scott Robertson, an English Investigator, who had spent 3-4 years with the Kam Kaffirs in Kamdesh in Kaffirstan [now Nuristan]. He has studied these people extensively and wrote his observation in an excellent book called 'The Kaffirs of Hindukush published in 1896. He states that it is a custom among the Kaffirs to put the dead body in the wooden coffin which is then placed outside the village in a specially marked out place.

Also Donald N Wilber:
Writing on Kaffirs/Nurustanis whom he calls the descendents of ancient Kambojas, Donald N Wilber, an American Scholar notes: "When an individual dies, his body is placed in a wooden coffin set up without burrial at the outer skirts of the village..."[Afghanistan, its people, its society, its culture,1962, Donald N. Wilber, p 51]

FOR KAFFIRS BEING DESCENDENTS OF ANCIENT KAMBOJAS
[See Afghanistan, its people, its society, its culture,1962, Donald N. Wilber, p 51, 311 Donald Wilber; also ref: Afghanistan Study of Political Developments in Central and Southern Asia, 1967, W. K. Fraser-Tytler, M. C. Gillet; An Account of the kingdom of Caubol, Vol II, p 375-77, Elphinstone, Bombay Gaz, I. 1, 498,n; JRAS., 1843, 140; JASB, 1874, 160 n; Political Sistory of Ancient India, 1996, p 133, Dr H. C. Raychaudhury; Sidhant Kaumudi, Acharya R. R. Pande, 1966, p 20-22; The Achemenids and India, p 13, Dr S. Chattopadhya; Ancient Kamboja, People and the Country, 1981, p 43-44, 120, 223 etc etc]

cf: "There is an apparent trace of their [Kambojas'] name in the Camojees of Kafirstan , who may have retreated to mounbtains before the advance of Turk tribes. [Vishnu Purana, III, 289-92, H. H. Wilson]
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#35
Old 08-18-2004, 06:39 AM
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Default [1] ASHVAGAN =AFGHAN

[1] ASHVAGAN =AFGHAN = LAND OF HEROES [LAND OF CAVALARY-MEN]**

The non-Afghan invaders first settled in Afghanistan before invading the Indo-Pak subcontinent and all the invaders made use of Afghan soldiers to carry out their military campaigns. These non-Afghan invaders made use of Afghan soldiers simply because the Afghans were famous for their acts of heroism; and this explains why the original name of Afghanistan was Ashvagan, meaning land of the heroes and from Ashvagan the name evolved into Afghanistan.

http://jang. com.pk/thenews/nov2003-daily/13-11-2003/oped/o6.htm

[2] ASHVAGAN =AFGHAN ='LAND OF THE HORSES'***
And now, many years later, my eyes have been opened by a host of personal events, and a series of good people, to a new point in my life where I quietly practice the religion which I publicly acclaimed more than twenty years ago in a long-gone and war-free Ashvagan (the Persian word for Afghanistan, meaning "LAND OF HORSES"). I no longer wear guns. My sword collects dust and sleeps with her memories. But most importantly, I try in my daily life to put into practice what the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught, mainly to love my fellow man and to worship naught but God.

http://www.thelongridersguild. com/Word02.htm

[3] ASHVAGAN =AFGHAN='LAND OF THE HORSES'***
Poor Afghanistan. The Persian rule in Ashvagan ('LAND OF HORSES') as the area was then known, was overthrown in 1747 and a monarchy established in the land thereafter to be known as Afghanistan. The Shahs and Amirs ruled until 1973 when the country became a republic. In 1994 the Taliban converted the republic into an emirate.

http://www.dawn. com/weekly/cowas/20011104.htm

[4] ASHVAGAN =AFGHAN='LAND OF THE HORSES'***
Ashvagan, the ‘LAND OF HORSES,’ as Afghanistan was once known long, long ago, formed itself into a state in 1747. The first Amir, Ahmad Khan ruled well and wisely (1747-73). His brothers and sons succeeded him, the last of the family, brother Mahmud being overthrown in 1818. Thereafter, for eight years, anarchy prevailed. It was during this period that Afghanistan became the main playing field for the Great Game, started in 1824 and which now, almost two centuries later, still continues.

http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-stu...ep98.html#ashv

[5] ASHVAGAN=AFGHAN = 'LAND OF THE HORSES'***
Et maintenant, plusieurs anneacute;es plus tard, mes yeux se sont ouverts par une foule d'eacute;vegrave;nements personnels, et par une seacute;rie de gens bons, et je suis arriveacute; agrave; un nouveau point dans ma vie ougrave; je pratique tranquillement la religion que j'ai acclameacute; publiquement il y a plus de vingt ans dans un Ashvagan (le mot Perse pour Afghanistan, qui veut dire "Terre des Chevaux") disparu depuis longtemps et paisible. Je ne porte plus les armes. Mon eacute;peacute;e est couverte de poussiegrave;re et dort avec sa meacute;moire. Mais le plus important, c'est que j'essaie au quotidien de mettre en pratique ce que le Prophegrave;te Mahomet (PBUH*) nous a enseigneacute;, surtout d'aimer ses semblables et de ne veacute;neacute;rer que le bon Dieu.

TTRANSLATION: "And now, several years later, my eyes opened by a crowd of personal events, and by a series of good people, and I arrived at a new point in my life where I quietly practise the religion which I acclaimed publicly there is more than twenty years in Ashvagan (the word Perse for Afghanistan, which wants to say "LAND OF THE HORSES") for a long time disappeared and peaceful. I do not carry any more the weapons. My sword is covered with dust and sleeps with its memory. But most important, it is that I try with the daily newspaper into practice to put what the Prophet Mahomet (PBUH *) taught us, especially to like its similar and to venerate only good God."

http://www.worldtrailrides. com/1voyageacheval/chevalislam.htm
http://www.worldtrailrides. com/pdf_files/chevalislam.pdf

**COMMENT -1: ASHVAGAN=LAND OF HEROES OR CAVALRY-MEN

Mahabharata especially referes to the Kambojas as ASHVA-YUDHA-KUSHALAH...i.e. THE KAMBOJAS AN EXPERT CAVALARY-MEN OR HORSEMEN..

See below Ancient Sanskrit evidence:

tathA yavana KAMBOJA mathurAmabhitash cha ye /.
ete ashva.yuddha kushalA dAkShiNAtyAsi charmiNaH//
[Mahabharata 12/105/5]

cf: "..... The Kambojas of Ashoka and of the Sanskrit and Pali texts thus occupy exactly
the same position as Arrian's Assakenois (Ashvakas). We thus get another name for the Kambojas, i.e Ashvakas. The Kambojas were famous for their horses and as cavalar-men (ashva-yuddha-kushalah); Ashvaka, 'horsemen' was the term popularly applied to them" [Hindu Polity, A Constitutional History of India in Hindu Times, Part I II, 1972, p 140, Dr K. P. Jayswal]

***COMMENT-2:
ASHVAGAN=AFGHAN= 'LAND OF THE HORSES'

Compare KAMBOJO-ASSANAM.AYATANAM of the Buddhist Jataka SAMANGAVILASINI [P.T.S.]
Vol I, p 124, which expression literally means 'THE KAMBOJA COUNTRY IS THE 'LAND OR HOME OF THE HORSES'.

Cf Dr B. C. Law:
"The horses of Kamboja were famous throught all periods of Indian History. In the Sumnagalavilasini, Kamboja is spoken of as home of horses [Kambojo assanam ayatnam....Sumangalavilasini Vol I, p 124]. The great Epic is full of references to the excellent horses of Kamboja..................."[Some Kshatrya Tribes of Ancient India, p 238, 'The Kambojas', Dr B. C. Law]

http://punjabi.net/talk/messages/1/5...tml?1075172231
http://punjabi.net/talk/messages/1/2...tml?1020043322

cf Dr J. L. KAMBOJ:
"The Buddhist texts like Samangavilasini, Manorathapurani, Visudhimagga, Kunala Jataka etc refers to the Kamboja land as 'Kambojo Assanama ayatanam'........i.e.Kamboja ...the 'HOME OF HORSES'............." [Ancient Kamboja, People And the Country, 1981, p 26, 124, 244, Dr Kamboj]

cf Dr J. C. Vidyalankar:
"KAMBOJO ASSAANAMAYATANAM =KAMBOJA ........ THE LAND OF HORSES .."[Ref: Bharrat Bhumi Aur Unke Nivasi, , 1930, p 274-304, Dr J. C. Vidyalankar; also Bhartya Itihaas ki rup rekha, p 526-537]

cf Dr H. C. RAYCHAUDHURY, Dr B. N MUKERJEE:
"............. With the sxpression Assanam Ayatanam ...'LAND OF HORSES' used by Pali Texts in reference to Kambojas, [Dictionery of Pali Proper Names, I, 826, cf Mahabharata VI, 99, 3] may be compared to the names Aspasios and Assakenois given by classical writers to the sturdy people living in the Alishang and Swat valleys in the days of Alexander (Camb Hist Ind I, 352 n)" [Ref: Politicla History of Ancient India, 1996, p 133, p 216 foot note 2, Dr H. C. Raychaudhury, Dr B. N. Mukerjee, while writing on Kambojas]

cf: K. S. DARDI
".....Panini has used tewrm Ashvakayana for Kambojas..... This Sanskrit Ashvakayan or Aashvakan means the 'THE HOME OF THE HORSES'.. or the 'THE LAND OF THE HORSES'......" [Ref: These Kamboj People, 1979, p 193, K. S. Dardi]

Also compare the following from Buddhist website:

KAMBOJA (KAMBOJAKA)
"One of the sixteen Mahaacute;janapadas which, with Gandhaacute;ra, belonged, not to the Majjhimadesa but, evidently, to the Uttaraacute;patha (A.i.213; iv.252, 256, 260). It is often mentioned as the FAMOUS BIRTH PLACE OF HORSES (assaacute;nam aacute;yatanam) (E.g., DA.i.124; AA.i.399; Vsm.332; also J.iv.464)......."

http://www.palikanon. com/namen/ka/kamboja.htm

COMMENT-3:

In Indo-Iranian languages,
'g' can replace 'k' or vice versa
so also 'p' and 'b' or
'p' and 'f'.
't' and 'd'

Hence the Sanskrit ASHVAKA or ASHVAKAN which comes from ASHVAKAYAN of Panini's Ashtadhyai [IV-1.99] becomes ASHVAGAN.[k ==>>g]. Hence, according the above writers:

ASHVAKAN ==>> ASHVAGAN ==> AFGHAN [=LAND OF THE HORSES....i.e THE ANCIENT KAMBOJA LAND].
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#36
Old 08-18-2004, 08:50 AM
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Default Dr Ishwa Mishra's Views on

Dr Ishwa Mishra's Views on Rajputs

[Appeared in Indiancivilization Yahoo discussion forum]

To assign a foreign (mostly Hunnic and Scythic) origin to the Rajaputras, was perhaps completely in the line of AIT-thinking. Having perhaps also branded Hinduism at that time as too passive or peaceloving (read: weak), the warring leaders must have risen from a foreign influx.

First of all, I believe that the word Scyth and Saka/Shaka should be distinguished. The Skuthai are more connected with the Kshudrakas, but never re-entered Indian soil, as they were busy in the steppes and the Pontic area. And the Shakas are connected with the Kambojas (see Mahabharata, where Pahlava, Parada and Shakas are mentioned as Kamboja Rshi-kas).

Though they (Scyths and Saka/Shaka) were very closely connected, they were not similar.

The Scythians were called by the Assyrians Ashkuza or Ishkuza; as with the Kimmerians or Gimmiri, this word also appears to have found its way into the Old Testament; one of Gomer's (Gimmiri) three sons, in Genesis I.x.12, is called Ashkenaz, which has given us the modern Hebrew word, Ashkenazi [Ashvakayana?].
Many tribes in the farther NW were Indian, specially within the Hindukush areas! See the classical references of Indian tribes from Alexander's time on (Panini has also mentioned them, like the Ashvakayanas, Ashvayanas, Maunjayanas, Triravatis, Dviravatis, etc. if I am not Wrong).

The Northern Massagetai of Transoxiana were Shakas, closely connected with the Mashaka Ashvakayanas of Gandhara (Assakenoi with the capital Massaga. Mashaka is also a famous SamaVedic teacher of the Kauthuma- Parashara Charana). While the Kambojas lived in Gandhara, the Parama- Kambojas lived beyond the HinduKush, which is Bahlika. These Kambojas went to W.China too.Other Gandhara-Kambojas went to Kandahar and Seistan, establishing another Shakasthana, from the original Shaka- dvipa, modern Rechna Doab, with the Kathaioi capital Shakala-Sangla

(The Massagetai were responsible for the migration of the Skuthai out of the Oxus area, who on their turn caused migrations of the Kimmerians, according to the History of Herodotos). We have the Sogdoi in Sindh, but also in Sogdiana,etc. at least in the 4th c BC. The Persian Inscriptions place the Shakas in Indian territories. Having said this, if any of the Rajputs (of NW) are 'Scythic' or 'Saka', they are still Indians.

The four principal Agnikulas are from the subcontinent. Chauhana is simply a Prakritic form, that is why it looks so foreign.

Chauhaana/Chahvaana/Chahamaana must have had a second part *vaahana which became contracted to vaa-ana and vaana. Vahana was a part in a name which was very often used by kings. The first part may have been either 'chapa' or another form. (The Bhavishya Purana gives the form 'Chapahaani').

The Bhavishya connects the Agnikula Vamshas with 4 Gotras, which may explain the word 'Agni': they were perhaps in the same line as the sharmaka-varmakas, like the Licchavis earlier, and other Shastropajivi communities of pre-Gupta Era. The martial mode of life was very important especially in the border areas of the subcontinent.

The society was much more flexible than is mostly assumed and mentioned. If the Malloi-Malya/Bala Janapada, a branch of the Kathaioi Janapada(Katha Parashara Gotra) were very closely working with Oxydrakai-Kshudraka Janapada, then we have here Shastropajivi republican Brachmanoi working closely and equally with republican Kshudrakas-Shuudrakas (the Panjabi Abhiras). These two communities were two of the most fiercest opponents of Alexander in Multan- SPanjab.

The Malla-Bala under leadership of Kanakasena, contemporary of SamudraGupta and later his general, went perhaps south to the Sogdoi (*Shugdrakas or Shuudrakas) of Sind and later to Gujarat to Abhira and other Shaka areas, after the raids of Alexander.

Regards,

Ishwa
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#37
Old 08-21-2004, 09:22 PM
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Default KAFIR/KAMBOJ CONNECTIONS:

KAFIR/KAMBOJ CONNECTIONS:

SOME RELICS FROM THE PAST:

KAFFIR TRIBES OF AFGHANISTAN ARE AMONG THE OLDEST ETHNIC ELEMENTS COMPOSING THE AFGHAN PEOPLE, AND UNIQUE IN THEIR RECORD OF HAVING REMAINED UNAFFECTED BY ANY OF THE MAJOR RELIGIONS UNTIL THE END OF THE NINTEENTH CENTURY. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY INHABIT THE IMPASSABLE DEFILES OF HINDUKUSH, PRACTICALLY ISLOLATED FROM REST OF THE WORLD. THUS IT IS NATURAL THAT THEY MUST HAVE KEPT UP MANY OF THEIR ANCIENT CUSTOMS, PRACTICES, USAGES AND INSTITUTIONS ALMOST INTACT.

ALSO WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE SIAPOSH TRIBES [KAMS/KATIRS/KAMOZES/KAMTOZ] ARE CONSIDERED THE MODERN REPRESNTATIVES OF ANCIENT KAMBOJAS. NOW LET US CONCENTRATE ON SOME KNOWN CUSTOMS/PRACTICES OF THE KAMS/KATIRS AND COMPARE THEM WITH THOSE FROM THE ANCIENT KAMBOJAS.

I will try to keep the things simple.

[1]
TWO SOCIAL CLASSES:

ASSALAYANA SUTTA OF MAJJIMA NIKKAYA:[II.149] attests that amongst the Kambojas and Yavanas, there were only TWO CLASSES in the society......[AYYO ca ay DASO].....Masters and Slaves......Lords and Serfs

cf: "In the Assalaacute;yana Sutta (M.ii.149) it is stated that in Yona and in Kamboja, and also in the neighbouring countries, there were, in the Buddha's time, only two classes of people, masters and slaves, and that a master could become a slave or vice versa. The Commentary (MA.ii.784) explains that a brahmin would go there with his wife for purposes of trade and would die there. His wife would then be compelled to work for her living and her children would become slaves."

http://www.palikanon. com/english/pali_names/ka/kamboja.htm

REGARDING KAFFIR SOCIAL GRADING:

Now if you examine the pre-1896 Kafir Society of Afghanistan, you will find that the Kafirs society of Siahposhes i.e. Kams and Katirs [=Kamoz/Kamtoz of Robertson, Camoje/Caumoje of Elphinstone/Wilson] was also divided mainly into two classes ...TRIBALMEN/THE LORDS and THE SLAVES or SERFS/ARTISANS. And interstingly, the Kafir two class society was not rigid like the Brahmanical Chaturvarna [four classes] society.

According Scott Robertson [pre-1896 AD]:, the Kafir society is basically divided into TWO SOCIAL CLASSES.........(1).the Tribalmen and (2) the serfs/slaves. The the Tribalmen owned land, property and could have a say/vote in the Kafir parliament. The slaves weree either Artizen classes or else bonded to their masters and were considered chattel i.e personal property. They could be sold of/disposed of at will... [Kafirs of Hindukush, 1896, Sir George Scott Robertson, pp 73-84]. The master is otherwise kind to his slaves who do all menial labor for him.

The First class comprised Mirs and Priests, Jasts (elders/seniors), all members of large/small septs. They owned property, land and had a voice/vote in the Kafir parliament.

The second class consisted of members belonging to distinctly inferior family but freemen like sheperds etc AND the slaves like artizen class.They could not participate in the Kafir parliament.

cf: "Kafir tribal structure described by Robertson was similar to that of other tribes in Afghanistan, but in addition to the tribesmen, there were two non-tribal classes, the poor freemen and slaves. Slaves were usually war captives although they could be purchased from other Kafirs. The house slaves lived with the family that owned them and enjoyed higher status than did the artisan slaves who were treated much like occupational castes were in India........'[Op cit Donald N Wilber, p 51-52]

Continued....in part II
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#38
Old 08-21-2004, 10:22 PM
TRUTHFUL
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Default KAMBOJAS KAFIRS OF AFGHA

KAMBOJAS KAFIRS OF AFGHANISTAN

USEFUL INFORMATION:

[1]
THE KAMS ARE THE MOST RESPECTED/MILITARILY DREADED KAFIR CLAN IN KAFFIRSTAN

Writes Scott Robertson: "...The Chtralis declared to me that the Kams and the Wei tribes are the FIERCEST and MOST INTRACTABLE of all Kaffir tribes, while of those two, the Kam were the MOST TO BE DREADED FOR THEIR MILITARY PROWESS. [Ref: The Kaffirs of Hindukush, 1896, p 2-3, Sir Scott Robertson].


Scott Robertson: ".......The Kams hold much better together, and it is probable that it is for this very reason that, although not a numerous people, they are greatly respected by neighboring tribes, as well as by Chitralis and Pathans..........[Op cit, Scott Robertson, p 84]

"..........The Kams are vitually the kings of Kafirstan,........." [op cit, Scott Robertson].


'The Katirs [i.e Kamoz], Kams [i.e Kamtoz] and the Wei tribes are mainly descended from the ancient Indian population of Eastern Afghanistan....."***[Op cit p 157]

***Eastern and northern Afghanistan has been stated by the scholars to have foermed the ancient Kamboja land.
************************************************** *****************

[2]

FOR KAM=KAMOZ and KATIRS=KAMTOZ
[region and tribal name, see below]

"..The upper part of the Bashgul valley is called Katirgul [Lutdeh in Chitrali or Kamtoz in Pashtu], the middle portion Muman [Madugal in Chitrali] and lower part Kam [Kamdesh in Chitrali, or Kamoz in Pashtu] (Op cit, p 71, Sir Scott Robertson, also cf p 76, where erroneously, the Kartirs are called Kamoz and Kams are called Kamtoz]

Katirgul is occupied by the Katir Kaffirs where Kamdesh is occupied by the Kam/Kamoz Kaffirs.

KAMOZ == KAMBOZ == KAMBOJ

************************************************** *****************

[3]
A FUNNY KAM/KATIR TRADITION

"...The Katirs in the Bashgul valley informed me that they came from west, and were once a part of a numerous tribe which divided into two parties. One division consisting of the wealthy and their notable persons went to London, while the other comprising the menials settled in Kaffirstan. This depreciation of themselves is in the true spirit of oriental politeness. They warned me not to trust the Kams or to believe them for an instant if they declared that they and I were descended from a common ancestors; for it was notorious that it was the Katirs and not the Kams who wewre of my race, the Kams being really more akin to Russians......" [op cit., p 159-160]

************************************************** *********************

[4]
KAFFIR ALWAYS CLINGS TO HIS BLOOD:
'The Kafir is always loyal to his blood. It is the race and the blood the Kafir clings to...about religion he is comparatively indifferent. If a Kafir slave boy, sold out of his tribe by its members were executed in Chitral, he must be avenged by his tribe"..[op cit p 192].


cf: WARIS SHAH ON KAMBOHS/KAMBOJS OF PANJAB:

"Kukad Kaan Kamboh saluuk tina, nahin kise di ihna brabari ve'

This equally shows that the Kambojs of Panjab also similarly cling to their blood.
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#39
Old 08-22-2004, 08:38 PM
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Default KAMBOJA/KAFIR CONNECTION: SOM

KAMBOJA/KAFIR CONNECTION:
SOME RELICS FROM THE PAST:

PART II

[2]

ANCIENT KAMBOJAS [DEMORCARCIES, REPUBLICS, OLIGARCHIES]

The ancient Kambojas are also stated to be following repulican constitution in governing their countries/tribes. As per Mahabharata evidences several REPUBLICS of the Kambojas are also stated to be fightiing on behalf of the Kaurvavas

Narayanashcha gopala kambojanah ca ye ganah...[Mahabharata 7/91/39]

Also, Kautalya's Arathashastra in its chapter on the SANGHAS/REPUBLICS, referers to the CORPORATIONS of the Kambojas and the Surashtra people. [See Kautalya Arathashastera, Chapter 11, THE SANGHAS]

Kamboja-Surashtra kshatrya-shrenadyo varta-shaster opajivin [Kautalya 11/1/4]

"The corporations of warriors (kshattriyasreniacute;) of Kaacute;mbhoja, and Suraacute;shtra, and other countries live by agriculture, trade and wielding weapons"
http://projectsouthasia.sdstate.edu/.../Arthashastra/

Dr Michael witzel interprets from Kautalya's evidence that the Kamboja, Surashtra etc were probably oligarchies rather than pure democracies.

But, Mahabharata clearly attests many GANAS OR REPULICS of the KAMBOJAS as stated above. Henvce no doubt about Kamboja republics. Thus the Kambojas had followed democratic constitutions since ancient times.

Some noted scholars even argue that the use of suffix LUK with KAMBOJA KSHATRYA JANA in the 4/1/175 of Panini's Ashtadhya [KAMBOJAL-LUK 4-1/175] is an apparent exception from rest of the fourteen KSHATRYAS JANAS of the Paninan era who were all Kshatrya monarchies. Hence Dr K. P. Jayswal and Dr J. L. Kamboj etc interpret KAMBOJAL-LUK that the pre-Panian kings of the Kambojas, in fact, may have been king-consuls [titular or nominal kings of the Kamboja Republics] and were probably more like the commander-in-chiefs, war leaders in the battlefields.

Any way, this shows that the ancient Kambojas did follow democratic constitutions where all the Kashatrya class was duly represented....[but not the artizens/slaves etc]

NOW THE KAFFIRS OF AFGHANISTAN
[SEE SOME GLIMPSES OF KAFFIAR DEMOCRACIES/OLIGARCHIES]

Scott Robertson: "...Kaffirs are theocratically all equal. They maintain this principle themselves. Actually there is an oligarchy or in some tribes an aristocracy. The affairs of tribes such as Kams [=Kamoz....Kamboj] are managed by a Jast nominally but actually by a small group of greybeards who at ordinary times, rule in a more or less an absolute way. The Katirs and the Madugalis submit to the rule of one individual, unless their cupidity is aroused, when all common rules apparently snap of their own accord.......the reason is thrown to the winds and the gtavest difficulties arise...[Op cit pp, 434, 197]

'The Kam ruling authority in ordinary times consists of three Jasts, who were also Mirs and the priests. They use their power tactfully, and always know the bent of public opinion"

KAFIR PARLIAMENT:
"Next to this inner council of Jasts comes the orators, a troublesome class, who have wonderful influence in exciting or convincing the people. Volubility, assurance, and a good voice are powerful amongst the Kafirs as elsewhere..............On all questions of policy, foreign or domestic, Kafirs sit in Parliament. and discuss the matter noisily Yet in ordinary times, the opinion of the inner council most likely previously agreed upon among themselves prevails.."[Op cit Scott Robertson, p 434-435]

"Kafir parliament is a strange sight. Clamour is wonderful. A Dozen men, perhaps try to speak at once; each has his own little group of listeners whose attention, if it wanders, he seeks to call by loud ejaculations of 'ai-ai'! or by little pokes in the ribs of with walking clubs. If some very exciting topic is being discussed, perhaps all are talkers and none are listeners, but as a rule, one of the tribal orator begins to speak , he gets the attention of greater part of the assembly, his efforts are being helped by shouted illustrations, or further arguments, by one or two of the admiring friends...Kafirs love to argue among themselves to decide on some definite line of action....Singly they are often reasonable, but when they go off in a mob or group themselves under a tree and begin excited discussion, it is practically impossible to foretell what they will decide. Moreove the discussion arrived at one day is most likely to be rescinded on the next day and reverted back on the third day. ........." [Op cit Scott Robertson, p 435-436]

"....A Kaffir society is strongly traditional....if a perplexed stranger asks explanation of certain practices or usages which are new to his experience, the reply will invariably be "Insta charaza" ('it is our custom'), and this will be said in a tone to imply that there is nothing more to be said on this subject!. Fear of ridicule is a powerful factor in preventing a Kafir from adopting novel procedures or inventing new rules for action..........On controversial issues, he will wait to have the matter settled by open tribal discussion" [Op cit Scott Robertson, p 438-439]

"The tyranny of the majority is very great. As a rule, the minority gives ways at once. Indeed it must be so, for the final argument is usually a threat. A Kaffir is accumtomed to rapidly calculate what would be his chances of success if the matter in the dispute were to end in fight and he deeply loves to fight with all the probabilities in his favour. If physical superioity is against him, he generally gives way at once acquiscing without rancor in the views of the majority. .In his own way, a Kafir has an immense amount of eastern fatality in his disposition. and is usually intelligent enough to distinguish between what is and what is not inevitable!"
[Op cit Scott Robertson, p 439]


cf: Relying on Scott Robertson, H. A. ROSE writes: "Inspite of their social gradations, the Kaffir clans are in theory democracies, but actually they are oligarchies and in some cases aristocracies" [Glossary of Tribes and Castes of Panjab and north-western Frontier Province, H. A. Rose, p 422]

It is intersting to note that the Panjab Kambojs, the counter-parts of Kams/Kamozes of Kaffirstan also settle their disputes by assembling the village elders/grey-beards or else through the Panchayat as far as possible....it's only a last resorts that they take to the Police or Law Courts


[3]
DISPOSAL OF THE DEADS:

The ancient Kambojas are known to be affined both to Iranians as well as Vedic Indians. Hence some Kambojas followed Vedic customs, while the others followed Zoroasrian customs. Thus the custom of disposing of deads by Kambojas of Trans/Cis-Hindukush regions under zoroastrian influence were apparently Zoroastrian like throwing the deads in open spaces to be devored by birds/carnivorous animals. It appears that by Alexandra's times, rather than just throwing the deads in open, some Kamboja clans of the Cis-Hindukush regions had started the practice of packing the deads in wodden coffins and placing them in the cemetery at the outer-skirts of their villages. This evidence comes to us from Alexandra's historians with regard to the clans of the Aspasios. As their name implies,(i.e Iranian ASPA=horse), the Aspasios apparently were Iranians Kambojas......the same as the Ashvayans of Paninin's Ashtadhyai ...4/1/110..The Ashvakayanas/Ashvaka Kambojas [with name derived from Sanskrit ASHVA] were, on the other hand, probably more under Indian cultural influence.

DISPOSAL OF THE DEADS BY KAM/KATIR KAFFIRS [Pre-1896 AD].
'The Kaffir custom of disposing their deads is to place the body in a booden coffin and and then place it outside the village in specially marked out place, or a hill'. [Op cit, Sir George Scott Robertson]


cf: DONALD N WILBER [Pre-1896 AD Secnario]
".....When an individual died, his body was placed in a wooden coffin set up without burrial at the outer skirts of the village.......[Op cit Donald Wilber, p 51].
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#40
Old 08-23-2004, 03:58 AM
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Default THE KAFIRS =DESCENDENTS OF ANC

THE KAFIRS =DESCENDENTS OF ANCIENT KAMBOJAS

Writing on Kafir population of Kafirstan/Nuristan, Donal N. Wilber, an American scholar states:

"They [Kafirs] appear to be the decadent descendents of a more civilized race and a mixture of three elements: an extremely ancient element related to to the oldest known population of the central Himalayans**; an element with resemblances to the Kurds; and a type that shows a combination of Dinaric and Nordic traits and may go back to the most ancient proto-type of these races, PRESERVED IN THE MIDST OF AN INDO-ARYAN ASCENDENCY. It is quit certain, at any rate, that THE NURISTANIS ARE AMONG THE OLDEST ETHNIC ELEMENTS COMPOSING THE AFGHAN PEOPLE, AND UNIQUE IN THEIR RECORD OF HAVING REMAINED UNAFFECTED BY ANY OF THE MAJOR RELIGIONS UNTIL THE END OF THE NINTEENTH CENTURY."

"Parts of Nuristan formed a portion of the Greek strappy of the Paropamisadea in the fouth and third centuries BC. The people were then called Kambojas and described as of mixed Indo-Iranian descent***. Possibly they occupied a much wider area then and were gradually forced... into their present mountains by Moslem onslaught. One of their principal tribes is still called Kam or Kamoz/Kamtoz." [(Afghanistan, its people, its society, its culture, Donal N. Wilber, 1962, p 80, 311); cf Kamoz of Scott Robertsen , Camoujees of Elphinstone, H. M. Wilson]


cf: W. K. FRASER-TYTLER/M.C. GILLET: "All that seem at all certain that parts of modern Kaffirstan formed a portion of Greek Strappy of Paropamisade in 3/4th c BC and the people were then called Kambojas who were of mixed Indo-Iranian descent***......In fact the scholars are of the opinion that Kamboja and Kapisha, the native city of Adjoining Greek capital might be identical..."
[Afghanistan..A Study of Political Developments in Central and Southern Asia, 1967, W. K. Fraser-Tytler, M. C. Gillet]

cf "...here in Kaffirstan, we find the last relics of the Greek occupation of Bacteria, and here are certainly remnants of a yet more ancient PERSIAN STOCK with all the flotsam and Jetsam of high Asia intermingled.....They are, from the point view of Kabol court, all lumped under two denominations ...Siahposh and Lalposh" [The Gates of India, p 270, Dr Holdich]

**NOTE: They are known as Viron or Presun tribe. They have a very low forehead, close-set eyes, a broader nose a receding chin a darker skin color...and it is possible that the Presungelis represent the aboriginal inhabitants of the area.[Op cit Donald N Wilber, p 51]. Scott Robertson also notes this Presun Kafir population as very ancient and entirely different from the Siaposh tribes of Kams/Katirs[Kam/Kamoz, Kamtoz]. According to him, Presuns constitute aboriginal population, which was enslaved by the present dominant tribes.
[Op cit Scott Robertson, p 78-85].


*** Compare also: "...............the Vamsa Brahmana Kamboja Aupamanyava is spoken of as a pupil of Madragara, from which Vedic Index postulates a possible connection of Uttaramadras with the Kambojas, who probably had Iranian as well as Indian affinities ..." [Vedeic Index, I.84, 138, Dr A. B. Keith, Dr Mcdonnel; Also Indian as Known to Panini, p 50, Dr V. S. Aggarwala; cf An Ancient People of Panjab, the Udumbras, JA, 1926, p 11, Jeau Przyluski; cf: Ancient kamboja, People and the Country, 1981, p 170, Dr Kamboj]

[For further reference on Kafir/Kamboja connection, see: Political History of Ancient India, 1996, p132, Dr H. C. Raychaudhury, Dr P. N. Mukerjee; The Geographical Dictionery of ancient and Mediaval India, Nando Lal Dev; cf: An Account of the Kingdom of Caubol, M. Elphinstone, Vol II, p 375-77, fn p 619; Bombay Gaz, 1.I 408n; JRAS, 1842, 140; JSAB, 1874, 260n; Vishnu Purana, III, 292, H. H. Wilson,Ancient Kamboja, People and the Country, 1981, p 44, 120, 46 Dr Kamboj; The Achemenids and India, p 13, Dr S. Chattopadhya etc etc].
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